Tanya (00:03.33)
Hello and welcome to today's episode. Today on the show we have Alicia White. Alicia is the visionary founder of Moody, an innovative platform dedicated to empowering neurodivergent individuals and their families. She has a deep passion for creating inclusive opportunities and it is her mission to support those on the neurodiverse journey.

Helping them to overcome challenges and build fulfilling lives. Welcome to the show, Alicia. Thank you. And thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here and share a bit about my journey. Super excited to have you here too. So what is Moody? I'm really intrigued. Tell us a little bit about it. Yeah. So Moody is a space where it connects not only

educators, not only at Ludd Health, but also is a platform to support neurodivergent people and parents. So I'm a special education teacher and I stepped out of the classroom to really help focus on the wellbeing and sort of mental health and outworkings of learning and life with neurodivergent people. But yeah, I've sort of gone into that creative space and really wanted to

dive deep into helping neurodivergent people outside of the curriculum. Although that is such a important and potent element of school and learning life. I really believe that there is such an element that maybe can't be helped within the school classroom environment. And I wanted to be able to support neurodivergent people in a way that really suited me.

Amazing. And like what drew you to helping neurodivergent people? So it actually started when I was in high school. I was having seizures and it was actually unsafe for me to be in the classroom. So I was actually put into a special needs unit as a special needs student.

Tanya (02:25.418)
And that just posed so many challenges for me personally as a high schooler trying to do life, trying to be, you know, normal as you would put it. And so I was in the special needs unit and I really struggled. I didn't feel like I should have been there, although I knew the safety complications that I had.

I didn't really think that I needed to be in the special needs unit, to be honest. And from there, I got offered a special needs teach rate course because some of the kids there, they had actually followed my behaviors and started doing what I was doing. And they became unresponsive to the other teachers and they didn't want to listen to them.

and they just wanted to do what I was doing and they just wanted to learn off me. And so it was really fun because I started that and I started pursuing my education. And so I just really accepted the fact that I was there, took it as a learning opportunity. And from there, I graduated year 12. I was then went on to do my diploma in education.

and my degree in education majoring in special needs. And from there, I went and was a teacher aid remotely when I did my diploma for kids that had autism and were nonverbal. And I just loved it. We saw such great progress in the students and

it truly was amazing. Like I was like, this is, this doesn't seem like a job. Like this is incredible. so yeah, then went on to do my, my bachelor and it definitely posed a lot of challenges for me because like university study is a whole nother thing. sorry. but yeah, it was, it was fun. that. And

Tanya (04:46.146)
The more I learned about myself and the more, yeah, the more I learned about myself and the more that I realized what I really wanted in life was all about just helping neurodivergent people. It was a lot of people didn't see them for who they are. They sort of, you know, seen titles and seen, yeah, just titles and sort of

didn't want to be involved or maybe were scared or challenged by them. Yeah, so I was like, yeah, this is me. Like I can really make a difference in this space. Yeah, so I was like, I was then graduated to with my special needs bachelor and just haven't looked back. So just dive deep into the field and yeah, definitely has its challenges.

But I love it. yeah, that's sort of why I sort of stepped into that field. That's amazing how your path just like found you. Yeah. And like, if I, tried to deny it so much, like I really didn't want to be there or be amongst it because I, I just didn't want to, it was not what I wanted or that I thought.

I wanted to go to a totally different career. But the more that like I was there and involved and surrounded and immersed myself in it, the more I see such progress in myself and the teaching that I did with them. So it was, yeah, amazing. Yeah, I'm a firm believer in like the thing that you're meant to be doing kind of like, you know, it finds you.

And if you try to like deviate and do something else, it will just come knocking again and again and again. And I think also, you know, just like what I see reflected there is, you know, just like when we like deny reality or we pretend reality doesn't, you know, doesn't exist or, you know, we don't accept it, then we just spend a lot of time butting our head against the reality.

Tanya (07:10.926)
And then we kind of miss out on a whole lot of other things that are actually really positive things or, you know, really beneficial to us. And, you know, I can see sort of how that that sort of played out for you in that situation. Yeah, and, and when we when we do that, like we see the skills and our internal things to sort of blossom, I feel like, you know, when you accept it, and you're like, Yeah, this is me, this is

This is my journey. Yeah, yeah. And what were some of the things that you felt like worked really well for when you were working with the children, know, especially, you know, nonverbal autistic children. What were some of the strategies and things that worked well for for those children? Something that we that I did every day that worked with them.

was getting outside in nature. Sometimes lessons would be done outside, completely outside. And like with that, I would respond to their needs as I would see them, because when we would respond to how they're actually going, and maybe you could see that they were participating in learning activities, but then they...

weren't actually obtaining the knowledge or they weren't actually fully understanding it, then we would adjust the learning environment or let them have a break and actually like really take hold of like what they needed in that time. And it would take, would literally have such a positive impact that like the whole game would change from it because you're actually looking at what they need and responding to it.

It seems like such a simple thing, but it has such a positive flow on effect because they see that you value them as a teacher and a student. when you have that report, you're like, okay, they really do see me and I can sort of be comfortable and go with it. that whilst learning is what we're trying to achieve here, we might not necessarily get through the curriculum, but we're learning so many other aspects of life.

Tanya (09:36.2)
which is so important. this really the simple effects and simple strategies that I use were the most effective. I love that you know just seeing the human right. I think sometimes especially for our neurodivergent children like people kind of expect them to fit within like a tick box and you know

or they see all neurodivergent kids as like, you know, the same. Whereas, you know, there's so such diversity within our culture. know, and I think that's one thing that I think, you know, I think there's slow awareness happening, but I think there's a lot more education and awareness that needs to be around that. Definitely, definitely. I think so many people, you know, might think that the,

it's so saturated with people talking about the diversity of neurodivergent people, but actually in the grand scheme of things, it's not. And I think we need to continue talking about it and continue to advocate for the younger generation because we can truly make an impact moving forward for them. So true. And I think sometimes, you know, with us as people who like to live and breathe, you know,

neurodivergence or kind of like work supporting families in this area or work, you know, or have our own neurodivergent children. We spend so much time like just like, you know, diving head first into it. It's it's our passion. And then I'm often like confronted when I go out into like my community, like, you know, like the actual black face -to -face community. And because like my little

corner of the internet is very like neuro affirming. Just like some of the ignorance of people around me. Yeah, can we feel really, really uncomfortable? And it's a big wake up call because you're like, okay. Yeah, there's still a lot more work to be done out there. Definitely. And sometimes it can be like, I've just talked about this so many times on on my social media platforms are, you know, I've heard so many other people talk about it, but

Tanya (12:05.032)
when we hear that in our community, it's a reminder that there's so much more that we need to talk about it and need to spread the word. And yeah, so much more awareness needs to happen. Absolutely. And I love what you said about, you know, sort of being there for like the whole person. Here in New Zealand, I'm my my background, my my initial training was as an early childhood teacher.

And so part of our curriculum here is around the holistic development of like the whole child. And so it just really resonated with me when you were talking about, know, you know, sort of being there for all the child's needs and not just focusing on like one dimension of like learning, which I think sometimes, especially in like primary and secondary school, there can be that focus just on like,

language skills or cognitive skills or like academics. So that's a really great reminder. Yeah, and it can, it can feel really rigid when it's not. And when you don't have that framework in place in the, in the school. But when you do, and when you're supported by that, it just can change everything in the change of learning experience for the student. And like that's ultimately, we want to create a positive learning experience so they can, they continue with that.

Otherwise it can, when you create a negative learning experience, it creates a resistance and it doesn't create that positive pathways moving forward and wanting to dive into learning and exploring life like that.

I had a really positive experience today. We finally got my son's autism diagnosis about a month ago. He'd been on a waiting list for two years. And... That is right there. It's so, so sad and so horrible itself. Two years on the waiting list. Yeah. Yeah.

Tanya (14:14.24)
I mean, and that's like knowing that the medical professionals knowing that his other two siblings are autistic. you know, but I think because he is he is a fab. And he is quite, you know, he doesn't, you know, come, he is quite high masking. A lot of the assessments that we did, like people like, no, I just don't see it.

But I think after him getting that diagnosis, he's starting to unmask a little bit and to kind of like actually embrace some of his autistic traits, which I think is lovely. But today at school, I went in to talk to the special education coordinator and they were just so affirming. was just really, really amazing. But I know that so many other

are not as lucky to be in school environments where they are like neuro affirming and accept children and you know put support like adequate supports in place or strength based supports in place. Like what? What advice would you give to like educators if they are perhaps in a school or part of a school environment where?

things are still quite deficit based or pathologized or, you know, not very neuro affirming, like how can they, like how can they move forward? Cause I know that there are teachers who really, you know, are lovely and strengths based neuro affirming, they sometimes with instructors that aren't. Yeah, I think, I think when you're in a situation like that, the teachers really need to go above and beyond and

you know, do their own research. need to surround themselves with other teachers that are neuro affirming that, yeah, like I just don't, for me, like when a teacher says, you know, I'm in a school that doesn't have funding or I'm in a school that, this doesn't have those supports in place. And I have say 28 students and I have so many kids that, you know, are neuro diverse learners.

Tanya (16:40.852)
And my question to that teacher then is like, are you as the teacher, like modifying and differentiating for those students? Because while the school framework may not align with you as an educator, but there's still such responsibilities as an educator to go above and beyond to provide the adequate learning and teachings for that student. It could be simple as like,

modifying a curriculum to be around their special interests. Like, okay, like for learning activities, if you know that one student may not want to necessarily be engaged in classroom conversations, then there are resources that you can make to, that they could be doing self -paced learning and it could be all centered around their own special interests, which would help them be engaged.

Yeah, I just think that teachers really need to remember why they started their job and that it's not necessarily about, you know, blaming school system, but it can also be like, okay, this is the problem. How can I be proactive in it? Because when you take that sort of like that approach yourself, then you remember and remind yourself that you can make a difference yourself too. You're not relying on

a system or a government, you're like, you know, I can do this, I can make small changes to making a positive effect for students. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think, I think sometimes, especially in, like, in education, and I've encountered this time and time again, I've been in education for 25 years. You know, there is a lot of like,

blaming, think. You know, like, you know, it's not my fault. It's like the system's fault or and there is some truth in that. But I firmly do believe that we all have a responsibility. And so it might not be your fault, but it might be your responsibility to do the best that you can as a teacher. Definitely. And that's where I really with Moody want to help advocate for teachers as well.

Tanya (19:04.584)
You know that teachers, when they go through their education degree, they don't necessarily get taught about neuro affirming strategies. They don't get taught about the environment as such for neuro diverse students. And so we're putting an expectation to that might not be a reality for some people. It's like, well, we don't, they don't might actually not know. So I am really passionate about educating.

advocating for teachers to get more support and whether that is, you know, going to more professional development to learn more and also to provide resources for them because like I said, they just may simply not know and they just may be applying the policies and procedures and frameworks that they use in the classroom for all the students, which

we know that it won't work if we just apply one strategy for everyone. Yeah, yeah. I think education is slowly evolving from that. I remember when I first started, there definitely was a lot of emphasis on, we can't possibly change it for this child or that child because it'll be really unfair. Or we have to just kind of stick with this very narrow view. And I do see there is a lot

more moving towards like, individualized learning for students, whether they're neurodivergent or neurotypical. You know, rather than just kind of like, expecting everybody to just do the same thing or learn in the same way. Yeah. And like, if we think about like teachers, like, we all teach differently. And we have our own way of

developing even our resources and the why we do them differently. And so I think if we look at our students and we think, well, if I had all the teachers in the room, we're all going to do things differently too. Sometimes I feel like we can overcomplicate things. But if we just really remember the foundations of that everyone's unique and everyone has their own way of learning.

Tanya (21:23.904)
and only preferred learning and we might not be able to meet all of that, but we can definitely put in some strategies to help support that. And what like, what tips would you give to parents of neurodivergent children or you know, some parents are neurodivergent themselves and really struggle with going into like, speak to like teachers.

in school because they feel like they're not going to be heard or they don't want to be that parent, you know, the one that's always complaining. But they really want to advocate for their child. You know, what like what have you seen over the years that has has helped parents to be able to do that? Yeah, and it's okay for parents to feel like that. You teachers and the school system can be very intimidating. And there's so much pressure.

on parents to be doing all the right things. And I just like, it's okay for parents to feel overwhelmed and I guess stressed with that. Something that I've seen and that I've used personally that has been really effective is a communication book that is not only centered around the child, but also centered around the parent and the teacher.

is going home and you know that also has different responsibilities with the child even taking that home. And so that communication book would go back and forth and sometimes it would stay at the in the classroom for a few days and the teacher would collect some evidence for the parent and then that would sort of go home and it would just go back and forth and it's a really great

because then the teacher or the parent can bring that up in meetings and they can say, you know, we discussed this topic or discuss this concern, they can easily refer back to it. And obviously the communication that just as simple as going to the office and say, hey, can you just, can you leave this note for the teacher? Because the teacher might not always have time, but the parent that is, you know,

Tanya (23:41.45)
making sure there's some sort of communication, just so that for the parent, they know that it's sort of out of their mind and they're like, yeah, okay, I've dropped that note off, that's going to get followed up. Because as neurodivergent parents also, you can constantly be thinking like, didn't talk to that teacher about that concern that I had, or even the positive thing that they wanted to celebrate, like, I really want to talk about how great

you know, my, my child did this at home and I wanted to see if that would be at school. and so it can just be constantly playing. So when you talk about that or just, you know, acknowledge that communication with the teacher, then it sort of gets out of your brain as well. So you're not overthinking it. Cause you know, we know that neurodivergent, adults definitely are some great thinkers. Absolutely. You know, I think you can really.

I know from my own experience, know, like a small thing can just really play over and over and over in your head and become a really big thing. Definitely. And so just, just starting with that one thing of maybe leaving the note at the office. The teachers love, love communication with parents. know that myself, like I would, I would love when I would do gate duty and we would have a gate duty where someone would be up front and sort of

greeting parents, making sure that kids got on buses and things. And I would be always so excited because I just want to talk to the parents about what's happening because, you know, the students spend such a great time with you at school. And so you just want to talk about, know, like, I just want to tell you what's been happening, like of what I've seen in the playground or what's happening in class. And when you start to have that informal conversation, then it sort of breaks down that barrier.

and then you can start to become more comfortable and just have really informal great chats with the teachers and parents. Yeah, I think sometimes what I've seen in my own experience as a teacher is that, because I teach adults sometimes now, in tertiary, do some courses. And sometimes the experience that the parent had

Tanya (26:07.466)
as a student in the class where perhaps they did not have a very positive experience can really impact the relationship that they have with their child's teachers because they've still got that image of what education felt like or what it felt like to be a student and that sort of power balance.

And that can be quite intimidating because you're kind of reliving that or that's being triggered every time you speak to the teacher. Definitely. And that can be really hard and really challenging because you don't want to put your own experiences on your child, but then it is very real and very relative for you. So it can be really challenging to face that.

So I like your idea of just like, you know, breaking down some of those barriers and just having some of those informal conversations. Yeah, I think that can really sort of help you kind of, you know, okay, this isn't the same as when I was at school. Yeah, because I feel like an email, it may even provoke that, that feeling if you've had a negative relationship with, you know, your teachers, because an email can sort of come through and

you don't necessarily know the tone of what you know they want you to receive it in. And so you could be reading this email and it could be triggering you and you're like, my goodness, like I didn't, I didn't realize this or why are they speaking like this? And so that's why I always suggest when you, when you can is that face to face contact because you know, you can see their body language, you can, you can pick up their tone and you can really hear their heart. So I feel, I feel like that

is a really effective strategy and yeah, emails, while they can be really effective, can be quite triggering, I have found personally. Hmm. Yeah. No, so true. So, I want to just talk a little bit about Moody. First of all, how did you come at, come with the name? Yeah. So I was actually talking to one of my friends about it and you know, we were talking about one of the traits that, you know, I have, is that I can often be quiet Moody.

Tanya (28:25.838)
And I can go up and down within my moods and you just never know what mood I'm going to be in. like something could really trigger me with and I could be in a really super hyperactive mood or really like emotional all in the one day. So I didn't want to overthink it because I can overthink names and

sometimes that can prevent me from even actioning it. So I was talking with my friend and we, I just was like, this is perfect. And then I, when I realized that Moody, I couldn't have the Instagram handle Moody because there's so many businesses out there called Moody, would you believe it? So I was like, well, you know what, Moody, Moody is all about making a difference. So,

That's where we came up with Moody Difference Handle. But yeah, Moody is just literally all about the different moods that I have. And I know that a lot of neurodivergent people display. And I want people to accept that that is reality. Because it can be so hard at the start of the journey to realize that you can have all these different moods.

things will provoke a mood and that that can be really challenging at the start because you know, you can have those feelings of denial and it makes you feel more different and all of that. And I wanted people to accept and feel comfortable with themselves. And so that's where Moody was born. Awesome. And so like, in terms of the platform, like what kind of format does it take?

so like I have the Instagram, and then like the vision with, with Moody is that I would, have a, have a place that is sort of that is sorry, I'm just lost my words for a second. That's okay. It's okay. So I want to have like three different areas where I support teachers, students and parents and

Tanya (30:50.486)
those three different platforms would be available to people so that you can sort of work through it and go through different strategies, go through different resources and teachers, allied health people, different coaches would all be in there supporting and helping one another. it sounds like a really, really beautiful place. Really so supportive for people on their journey. And because it can

It can be very isolating, I feel. And, you know, a lot of people say, you know, I feel like everyone has ADHD at the moment. feel like everyone's autistic and, you know, everyone's just talking about the so many positive aspects of it. And I just, remember saying to that person, like, you know, I feel like so many people showcase

sort of the positive sides of it. There's so much that people aren't sharing because there is a lot of shame and there's a lot of guilt. And so I feel like it's not talked about it enough and there's so much more that we can talk about and so much more people can learn. You know, even if myself, my family is on a massive learning curve learning all about it. And it's fun and exciting, but it's also really challenging because you're constantly

feel like you're constantly going over that, you know, things are different in your brain and, the way you do things are different. So yeah. I totally I can totally relate. And you know, like I, I only stumbled on my neurodivergent learning, like after my children were diagnosed when they're like 17 and 18, my two older ones.

So, you know, it's been a huge, massive learning curve. it's quite like, it's really quite affirming. Like I love it when like I share a post of like, perhaps like some of the insecurities or the feelings that I've had. And then people like message me and they go, like, yeah, thank you for like saying that. Cause I feel that way too. And it just really sort of makes you feel like you're part of a community and

Tanya (33:15.394)
you're not so alone because I think you can feel really alone in it. Yeah, definitely. And it's, it's so comforting when you see that post, you know, and it's like, people are thinking this too, people are going through this and it's so, people feel it on such an internal level and it's, it's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much for chatting to me, Alicia. I will pop your links in the show notes. So please check out

All Alicia's links and her social media, follow her. And yeah, just thank you so much for just sharing all your experiences and your insight with us today. Thanks for chatting. I really enjoyed it and hope that it's been helpful and thoughtful for everyone. Thank you.